Wow! Thanks to Debbie for passing this little gem along. I’m simply speechless. And to think we almost bought a Prius to be “green friendly”.
Now I’m glad we opted for a totally pimped out 06′ Honda Civic. That way we actually do have one of the most “green friendly” vehicles to offset my arguably-worse-than-a-Hummer 05′ Nissan Titan!
Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage – By Chris Demorro
The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.
Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.
The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.
However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.
Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.
The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.
“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,†said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.
All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?
Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.
When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer – the Prius’s arch nemesis.
Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,†the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles – the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.
The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.
So, if you are really an environmentalist – ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available – a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage – buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.
One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.
This is GREAT! I argue with my wife that hybrids can’t be THAT much better than “regular” cars to justify their enormous discrepancies in price… Now I have a little more ammo to use in my argument!
Yeah, but this is actually totally false. It’s a myth. There is not that much nickel used in the Prius, and besides, much more is used making coins than making Priuses.
100,000 miles – the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.
The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles.
Where do these figures come from? They think a Prius will only last 100K and the Hummer 300K!? Their choice of figures has a huge impact the result.
So by their numbers, the overall cost of the Prius was $3.25*109,000 = $354,250, and the overall cost of the Hummer is $1.95*300,000 = $585,000.
So overall the Hummer costs more, and only becomes more economical if you are able to drive it many more miles than the Prius. If they both last the same amount of time, the Prius wins.
Now I grant you the nickel-induced pollution problem is a big deal, but that is less of an anti-hybrid argument as it is an argument for making an effort to clean up our industrial act. Batteries are here to stay, we need to find ways to make them as green as possible.
Yeah…except they only survive for 100,000 miles. So times the price of your little prius by 3, then compare to the hummer.
What is that? $975,000.
Many people drive their Prius 2-300.000 miles with the original battery according to other blogs, etc.
Dave W – After 17 years of marriage I just have one piece of advice to give you my friend… don’t ever argue with your wife. No matter what, she ultimately wins! :-)
Daver, I wondered about that as well. I think what they are referring to is that the batteries only last 100k miles before having to change them, as opposed to the Hummer’s V8 which will go a long time.
If you argue that the battery can be replaced, you then have to deal with the fact that the replacement is about $5000 or so, plus you’ve now doubled up on the pollution problem.
At least that’s my best guess!
John
@daver
So by their numbers, the overall cost of the Prius was $3.25*109,000 = $354,250, and the overall cost of the Hummer is $1.95*300,000 = $585,000.
your calculations are wrong sir, if you were comparing correctly you have to take into account three times of the Prius ownership figure to match the Hummer’s, i.e. 3*($3.25*100,000) = $975,000 vs. the Hummer’s $585,000 and so the Hummer is cheaper.
So overall the Hummer costs more, and only becomes more economical if you are able to drive it many more miles than the Prius. If they both last the same amount of time, the Prius wins.
And once again this is not true. You even state “if they both last the same amount of time” and still are comparing 100,000 miles vs. 300,000 miles. That is not the same amount of time. $3.25 * 100,000 = $325,000 vs. Hummer’s $1.95 * 100,000 = $195,000.
Once again Hummer wins.
$3.25*109,000 = $354,250
And where did you get the 109,000 from?
I’m sorry but you need to at least get your calculations straight before posting a rebuttal like that. And also if the production process of a hybrid requires a certain battery to be made, then yes it is an anti-hybrid argument since it is directly part of the vehicle.
@daver
So by their numbers, the overall cost of the Prius was $3.25*109,000 = $354,250, and the overall cost of the Hummer is $1.95*300,000 = $585,000.
your calculations are wrong sir, if you were comparing correctly you have to take into account three times of the Prius ownership figure to match the Hummer’s, i.e. 3*($3.25*100,000) = $975,000 vs. the Hummer’s $585,000 and so the Hummer is cheaper.
So overall the Hummer costs more, and only becomes more economical if you are able to drive it many more miles than the Prius. If they both last the same amount of time, the Prius wins.
And once again this is not true. You even state “if they both last the same amount of time” and still are comparing 100,000 miles vs. 300,000 miles. That is not the same amount of time. $3.25 * 100,000 = $325,000 vs. Hummer’s $1.95 * 100,000 = $195,000.
Once again Hummer wins.
$3.25*109,000 = $354,250
And where did you get the 109,000 from?
I’m sorry but you need to at least get your calculations straight before posting a rebuttal like that. And also if the production process of a hybrid requires a certain battery to be made, then yes it is an anti-hybrid argument since it is directly part of the vehicle.
P.S. DIGG: http://digg.com/environment/Toyota_Prius_does_more_environmental_damage_than_HUMMER_must_read
Story has been DUGG: http://digg.com/environment/Toyota_Prius_does_more_environmental_damage_than_HUMMER_must_read
come on. while the title is amusing; it is an unfair comparison.
does anyone really think ‘zero’ nickel is used to build a hummer?
and what about copper?
we use/mine much more copper than nickel.
http://www.allcountries.org/uscensus/1163_mining_and_primary_metal_production_indexes.html
and copper mining is also known for their ability to pollute,
http://www.unu.edu/unupress/unupbooks/uu35ie/uu35ie04.htm
or not,
http://www.miningjournal.net/stories/articles.asp?articleID=12775
which is better? it depends on what you mean by ‘better’. as my grandfather always said,
“you pays you money, and takes you choice”
BAMS,
I think you misunderstood my point. Let me rephrase it. First I want to emphasize that my original post was not a “rebuttal” to anything, I was not trying to prove that one care is more efficient than the other, I was trying to show how a simple change in a single assumption in their study could change the whole conclusion. The point is that the CNW study does not definitively prove that the Prius is less green than the Hummer, because of one problematic assumption.
What they did is to estimate both car’s service life in miles, then calculated the total costs of each car over those mileages, and then divided the total by the miles to get ‘cost per mile’. These costs would include both one-time costs, like the manufacturing and transportation costs, and costs associated with mileage, like gas, oil changes, and repairs. My point was that their overall “cost per mile” is heavily affected by their *assumptions* about how long each car would last. They assume that the Prius will last 109,000 miles (this is the original number in their report, not 100,000), and they assume that the Hummer will last 207,000 miles. (This if from the Dust.doc file that can be downloaded on their website. I don’t know where Demorro gets his numbers in the original linked article, the 100K looks like it was probably rounded down, and the 300K figure looks like maybe he read the wrong line, or something.)
So what happens if we remove the mileage portion of the costs? (I’m going back to the numbers from the original report, because it looks like Mr. Demorro’s figures are off.) The total cost of the Prius over 109k miles is $354,141. If we assume that the costs of operating a car are about $0.50 a mile (from the AAA: http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/03/26/041259.html), then the gas/repair/oil portion of that 354K is 109,000*.5 = $54,500, so the one time costs are about $300K. For the Hummer their total cost is $1.949*207,000 = 403,443. Subtracting the mileage portion ($0.50*207,000 = 103,500) we get approximately $300K!
So when we don’t make assumptions about which one lasts longer, they appear to be much closer in cost. Given that the Prius is much more fuel efficient, and probably more reliable (less $ for repairs), the Hummer has to last a lot longer for it to become more “fiscal” than the Prius.
And also if the production process of a hybrid requires a certain battery to be made, then yes it is an anti-hybrid argument since it is directly part of the vehicle
No, it is perhaps an argument against nickel based batteries. There is no law that says a hybrid must use a certain type of battery. Certain types may be better, but this is a matter of technological development. If we can develop a green battery that is effective at storing a charge in a hybrid system, the problem is solved.
Granted, for this specific car the nickel is a pollution issue. But with respect to overall pollution involved in car manufacture, this particular issue is presented entirely in isolation. We are told nothing of how much other cars use materials which are extracted through highly polluting processes. As Guy points out, lots of things are polluting, and all cars use a variety of materials which are extracted from the ground with a lot of pollution byproduct.
Clarification: in my post above I assume that the prius and the hummer cost the same per mile (from the AAA numbers), and then in the next paragraph I claim the prius is better off per mile than the Hummer. Clearly I need to pick one or the other. At the very least, if we assume they’re both on equal footing (the prius having an advantage in fuel economy and reliability, the hummer’s advantage being no big potentially expensive battery), then they come out to be about the same.
Prius ($3.25*100,000) = $975,000 vs. the Hummer’s $585,000
SOOOOOoooooo…..they’re the same? I have a great idea. I’m gonna write you a check for $585,000 and you write me a check for $975,000….it’s the same right?
greg isn’t too sharp, is he?