One Mans Blog
Specialization is for Insects.
Posted on Apr 12, 2007 - 2:03am by John P. in Photography, Reviews
I got a call today from Abe’s of Maine that was quite disappointing. But let me start with a little background info…
At 1:30am on Tuesday morning (4/10/2007) I ordered a new $3,379 Canon XH A1 Prosumer Camcorder from Abes for two reasons.
Now, the problem started today around 6:30pm CST when I’m shopping at a retail store and I get a call on my cell phone from a “customer service” (732-225-1777) representative from Abe’s “…just wanting to verify my shipping address”. He asks me if I’ve ever purchased from them before and when I say yes, he is surprised and “can’t find me in their system”. After he “verifies my address” he begins pressuring me to purchase all sorts of add ons. And remember, this is a three and a half THOUSAND dollar purchase.
First he tells me the camcorder only comes with a 90 day warranty, so I should buy a $200 extended warranty. When I say “no thanks” he says that because I’m a “repeat customer” he can give me a 25% discount and sell it to me for only $150. At this point I inform him that Canon clearly stated that the unit comes with 1 year parts and labor and that Abe’s claims that their products include the full manufacturer’s warranty, and that my credit card doubles it.
So then he tells me “technically” that’s true, but the “boards” in the camera are only warranted for 90 days. (What?!?)
After refusing a third time, he then proceeds to try to sell me an extra battery, telling me that the camera only comes with a 30 minute “demo” battery from Canon, when I know damn well it comes with a BP-950G that reportedly lasts for 4+ hours.
After multiple refusals, he moves on down the line trying to sell me a soft case, a hard case, a tripod, a 72mm lens filter, and tapes. I might be forgetting something, but for sure he offered - actually pushed - all of those things. I kept telling him repeatedly that I didn’t need anything else.
After saying no about 30 times, he asks me “so, you’re OK with not getting the camcorder for a few weeks then?” I say, “What?” and he proceeds to tell me that if I don’t pay for upgraded shipping he intends to ship the camera via the normal United States Postal Service, and it will take at least two weeks.
We should keep in mind that they sat on this order for 2 whole days by the time I got this call, which means that had I ordered it from NewEgg it would have been arriving the next business day (tomorrow) because of their free 3 day shipping, and Amazon would have actually delivered it today.
At this point I just want off the phone with this bitter little man. I don’t trust him, I think he’s lying to me, he is not being at all respectful or slightly grateful that I’ve given them thousands of dollars, and more importantly now I feel I have no reason to trust Abe’s of Main. After all, their web page says:
Condition: All products include every manufacturer supplied accessory and USA Warranty unless stated otherwise.
Well, this guy on the phone is “stating otherwise”, and if I allow them to ship this sub-standard product to me, then open it, they’ll claim I can’t return it because it isn’t “factory fresh”.
In addition to all of that, there is a $250 rebate on this camcorder which is only valid if it comes from an authorized reseller. I have to assume that if they are going to sell the product with a 30 minute “demo” battery and only 90 days of warranty that they are not indeed authorized and that will cost me an extra $250.
So when I get home I try to call Abe’s back to cancel the order, which I know damn well hasn’t shipped yet and I get the following message when I try to reach customer service:
So, this guy calls from customer service to rake me over the coals after 7pm their time, but when I call customer service is closed at 6pm, thereby making it impossible to call back and cancel the order. I then try to use their online “Track Order” page to find out any information possible, but it literally yields nothing. All it does is pull up a copy of the receipt with no shipping status - or even area for it - anywhere visible. Nice racket they have going there.
By this point I have lost 100% of my confidence in their ability to deliver a $3,500 order as promised, so my intention is to ensure they cancel the order and do not ship it. I sent them an e-mail to cancel the order, then I called my credit card company to share the story with them and was told that the charge hasn’t even yet come through!
Wow! How is that possible? It was an e-commerce order placed online and it’s been 48 hours without the charge coming through?
Tomorrow I’ll call them as a follow up to the e-mail cancellation, and then my next move will be to order the camcorder from either NewEgg or Amazon. Most likely I’ll do Amazon and try out the free two day shipping via the Amazon Prime offer. I’ll provide updates to this story in the comments as things progress.
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best buy doesnt call you to ask if you want to add things you may have missed. We do. We do not condone lying or depcetion to do so.
I am not in the position to defend every attack made here. i am just tryign to balance things out. I am also giving John P’s Readers an opportunity to contact me if nessesary. I dont want to continue this back and forth. I am sure there are MANY reviews, both bad and good you can find.
We are Listed in the BBB- we are not members, because there is an Incubation period after we moved to NY. We did not have acess to our website and the BBB logo was displayed incorrectly. The “pattern” of complaints that the BB is referencing are all over 1 yr old. The amount of complaints, compared to the Volume of business we do, is far. The fact that most, if not all of the complaints made via the BBB are resolved ASAP once again proves that we DO CARE. Again, i IMPLORE you to look up Don Wiss’s Images of our CLOSED brooklyn store front.
The Discounts given BY ME are generally at a loss for the company. but i do it to satisfy customers. i have permission from the managers to do so when the situation warrants it.
We Contact the customer to see if they forgot to order an extra battery or a case. We do not seel you things that already come with the camera. that is a tactic of the Shadier/Bait and Switch Companies out there. our policy is not high pressure, and we do try and train our employees as such.
In addition. We have been in business for over 30 years. We do sell our products at low prices, but we do not lose money on every sale. we have opened MANY new departments in the last year, with None of the stigma that “mail order cameras” have had in the past.
Unhappy mother, I am doing my best to give you any information you need, but this back and forth is best suited for email, Not Blog comments. The blog is well aware of your situation and the others that have posted before you. if you have any Questions, Or want to discuss this further, email me.
Sarah M.
An incubation period of 8 years? Ive never heard of such a thing according to the bbb report you guys have been moved since 2000 you say 2006 but even a 2 year incubation seems like a long time, excuse me if I’m wrong, I get that you cant reply to every person but you keep replying to everything I say…within minutes of me writing anything again I ask why not Rolf? Theres no need for me to email you , I have nothing that needs to be solved privately,I am publicly asking for an explanation of things that I am finding out about your business, I’m sure people want to know the explanation, and with you wanting to uphold the name of the company you proudly work for you should have no problem defending them publicly.You brought up the BBB did you not?
The thing about you guys calling to “make sure” the customer hasn’t missed anything is incredibly flawed.First off when someone places their order online and choose expedited shipping you guys don’t even process the order until you “call to make sure”, but theres a reason why people get expedited shipping, they need there stuff! they don’t want their order sat on and wait for you guys to call to “make sure”, and then theres the fact that the consumer isn’t stupid. I know, I know the camera I choose to buy doesn’t come with a memory card or an extended warranty, I don’t need a salesman to come “make sure” I know this. Not to mention the practice of calling after an order is made is KNOWN to be what shady businesses do to try to upsale you, so why on earth would you want to do something that is tied to such terrible business practices? The back and forth will continue on my end because I want people to know the answers to these questions, as well as me wanting answers, because the thought of you guys continuing to do this to people sickens me. I want to believe that you guys are a good business and that my experience was a once in a blue moon occurrence but its not looking that way Sarah, people keep coming with new stories very similar to mine only worse I think, people like Jason are still working with your business… so I have a hard time believing you guys are on the up and up and trying to fix things.
You know, this ‘calling back to make sure’ is indeed an insult to every order placed online over the Internet. Gee, if everybody that I ordered something from online would call me back, I would not get off the phone all day. I ordered some vitamins yesterday, do you think they should make sure I got all the vitamins I need? Or the good people at Dell that I order a custom computer from - they certainly should call back as this is a delicate matter?
And then you are telling me ‘you do not have access to your web site’. You are kidding me, right? How else would you update the product information?
Finally, displaying the BBB logo without their permission is fraud.
Bizrate.com may give you a smilie but I encourage everyone to read the reviews there - about half the customers gave you a thumbs down - Not sure how you can still wind up with a smilie but compare this for example to Beach Camera that also has a smilie with maybe one in 20 unhappy campers. (BTW - your Bizrate link is broken)
In addition, to post ‘CNET certified’ or ‘ShopWiki’ is misleading. These are your affiliates.
Resellerratings has some interesting info on you as well. I would encourage potential customers to have a look there. The first one to spot the bogus and real reviews gets a cookie. It is interesting how these ‘positive reviews’ directly address all the complaints against you. And you are telling me you are not rigging the reviews?
Gee, I have written positive ratings before but here are some quotes:
“Abe’s will be the first place I look next purchase.”
“I love the store….Ever since I discovered it….I will now go there and buy certain things. Shipping prices are good and most of the time it may come a day early. Never a problem. I am a very Happy customer and will continue to shop with Abes and I will tell my friends & family” (Ok, which ‘certain things?’)
“You can be sure that I will choose Abe’s for shopping online”
“The delivery is way too quick. ” (Really? How quick is too quick?)
“My order was taken quickly, and there were no pressure tactics to buy accessories for the camera.” (Why would there be pressure tactics?)
Sounds like a commercial!
Ok, enough of that. I’d suggest to the guy that writes these reviews for you that ‘definitely’ is spelled ‘definitely’ and not ‘definately’. He/she keeps getting it wrong.
You guys are scammers with methods that are outrageous. Considering that some of the gear (take the XH-A1) is hardly cheaper than a certified reseller with a factory warranty, I cannot possibly imagine why someone would fall for you.
The “call backs” sometimes serve a purpose. The intention motivating the calling is important to consider. A good company should be concerned, interested enough to sell a customer what that customer really wants and sometimes the buyer doesn’t fully understand what they’re purchasing or what they need - in the way of accessories - to make their purchase work properly or to their expectation. It’s a fine line - when to ask and when not to. Most companies I’ve dealt with want to build customer loyalty, not only because it’s the “right” thing to do, but because it’s the easiest way to build a repeat-customer base.
I worked at Circuit City once and we were trained to “qualify” our customers, many of whom were - it was repeatedly deomonstrated - not fully-prepared for their purchases. People didn’t know that their purchase would work best or better or not at all unless they purchased certain accessories. We seriously wanted people to buy what they really wanted, what they needed - and we didn’t want them returning purchases because they later determined whatever it was they’d purchased didn’t meet their expectations. Returns are often sold at a discount and the seller earns less of a profit reselling the products. So I think there is justification for the further qualification of internet purchasers. A fine line, yes - between salesmen trying to truly assist a buyer and one who seeks to pile-on accessories (including extended warranties) because of spiffs or other higher-commission-paid accessories in situations where a buyer is uninterested.
“It is interesting how these ‘positive reviews’ directly address all the complaints against you. And you are telling me you are not rigging the reviews?”
Did anyone notice all the reviews up now out of the blue on both sites that praise Jason? Right after I say what a terrible guy he was. They must really take their customers for idiots, its pretty insulting if you ask me. Just one thing Abes, just like you spelling words wrong on your praise comments, you also have to watch your dates, how a comment from March is put ahead of an April comment on reseller rating is beyond me, but I guess you guys didn’t think your customers would ever notice the discrepancy. I’d go fix that now if I were you.
And Bill, I completely agree with you and know that if I went into a place like say circuit city, they would say your going to need such and such, for your camera, my husband and I had a customer service rep from I think it was best buy help us with our purchase of a kodak easy share a while back he told us, the cameras going to need a memory card, which it did he then pointed us to the memory cards and gave us his recommendation, there really wasn’t any pressure, but if you look at Johns original post he states how he was pressured and lied to by Abes, as well as many others, I’ve read so many reviews that state that Abes tells them that the battery the camera comes with is a “demo” battery and that they need to upgrade which is a TOTAL lie, or them saying that the warranties are only 90 days (john can also vouch for that lie) its obvious if you take the time and research that Abe’s lies to get you to buy over inflated items that you don’t need in the first place.But Sarah said they are handling these salesmen immediately, how people with similar horror stories are still posting after all this time is beyond me…