I’ve been giving a great deal of thought to a fairly recent philosophical issue that the Blogosphere has yet to adequately address. Namely, what is the root purpose of allowing author links from commenters - especially given the rising tide of Comment Spam?
In this post I will attempt to enumerate the reasons, causality and consequences to justify the argument that the Blogging community needs to unite under a common philosophy regarding the use of links and author names in comments. I will also suggest an introductory framework to deal with the issue, most notably the institution of Terms of Use for all Blogs.
I believe it is important to focus on this problem quickly since the unethical, and possibly illegal, acts of sites like BuyBlogComments.com loom on the horizon.
Justification for Author Links
Every major Blogging system includes the ability for commenters to assign a URL to their comment which is almost universally used to turn their name into a hypertext link. I would argue that there are two primary reasons for Blogs to include an author’s URL:
- To encourage commenting. This reason is fair and valid because everyone wins. The Web site gains a little more content, the Blogger gets to engage in a stimulating conversation, and the Visitor receives some traffic back to their site so people can “research” them.
- To get to know the commenter. A community can develop around personal interactions in the form of comments. As people are able to get to know one another the experience becomes more personal and “humanized”. Mutual respect and even friendships can develop from this type of interaction.
Commenter Reasons For Providing Links
The philosophical problem comes into play when we consider that a Blogger’s reasons differ from the primary reasons that people want their URLs to be included in comments, which I would argue are:
- To get referral traffic.
- To lend credibility via their online persona / reputation.
The Disconnect
Since the Blogger’s and Commenter’s reasons don’t match, there is bound to be a disconnect. And we therefore see issues arising:
- Commenters frequently use URLs for sites they would like to publicize, as opposed to sites that tell who they are.
- Bloggers often mark comments from legitimate visitors as Spam in social spam fighting services such as Askimet when non-personal URLs are used. This can have the effect of blacklisting legitimate users.
- Markets are springing up to take advantage of this gap with Commenters being paid to falsely list author URLs for clients in blog comments.
- Blog posts, especially popular ones, are filling with empty comments that add no value.
The Solution
The solution to this problem involves bringing together three key parts:
- Implement a “Terms of Use” page to clearly outline expectations. I’m not aware of a single blog that has one, though it is irrational to expect any particular behavior without communicating expectations. Users need to be educated about where the lines are drawn so they can be held accountable. I’ve instituted one here as a sample.
- Consistent enforcement of standardized rules across top blogs. In the same way that most discussion forums share core rules, it’s important that the top bloggers send out a consistent message. Other blogs will follow the lead.
- Develop better user management and enforcement tools for blogging software. WordPress and other blogging packages should install a default “Terms of Use” page, and banning and other enforcement tools should be added to the core.
Rationale for Enforcement
I believe it’s important to explain to people why they are being asked to do something rather than just telling them to do it, so here are just a few reasons that serve to justify adherance to the policies outlined in any Terms of Use documentation.
For Commenters
- You are investing in yourself when you use a link that really describes who you are. All of these links build up over time and strengthen your online persona.
- Because of collaborative SPAM filtering, such as Akismet, commercial URLs will likely end up killing your ability to post comments on blogs all across the Web. If just a few people mark your comments as spam you will end up in a global blacklist.
- People wanting to learn more about you will actually spend time reading your site if they go there for that purpose, so you can link to and promote your other projects and they may actually get some quality traffic.
- If people follow a link to learn more about you and arrive at a commercial site they will be immediately turned off and leave, meaning the traffic served no purpose.
- If you use and link to your real persona bloggers will consider you equal in terms of valuing the opinion of another real person. If you fail to reveal your true identity then you do not deserve, nor will you receive equal treatment because you have no skin in the game.
For Bloggers:
- Allowing commercial links from commenters gives your site the appearance of a Spam farm. This will ultimately impact the perception of your site and damage your popularity.
- Comments are NOT necessary for a site to be popular! They are a luxury simply for you to receive feedback. Fewer, but high quality comments will be far more personally rewarding than tons of spammy one liners.
- Commercial links in your comments can, in some cases, damage your sites ranking in the search engines. You can develop a bad link neighborhood and lose valuable search engine traffic.
- Real, personal URLs of visitors are very valuable for getting to know the people your blog is attracting. You can make friends, do favors for one another, and really connect on a personal level.
Final Thoughts
For all of the aforementioned reasons (and more) I would encourage everyone - Bloggers and Commenters - to adhere to the following Rules:
For Commenters:
- Read and follow Lorelle’s rules for commenting.
- Ask yourself, “does my comment add value to this article or give the author constructive feedback?”
- Ask yourself, “would I post this comment if I wasn’t getting a link back?” If the answer is no, then don’t do it.
- If at all possible, advance the conversation. Take the time to explain how or why the article impacted you, or give a counter-argument.
- Providing links to additional authoritative or relevant resources is always appreciated, but do so in the text not in the URL field.
For Bloggers
- Communicate your Author Link policy to your visitors via a “Terms of Use” page. Let them understand your expectations and help educate them on the etiquette of being a good commenter. Feel free to link to this post rather than reinventing the wheel if it helps.
- Maintain a Zero-tolerance policy on commercial links from commenters. Delete the comments or at least edit and remove commercial URLs from every comment on your site. You’ve already communicated your policy now enforce it with conviction.
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Very interesting most you have here John. I’d say some of the rationale you bring attention “For Bloggers” doesn’t necessarily apply, like “bad link neighborhood”. That shouldn’t really matter. Blogs are built on “client retention”, not so much on search engine traffic. You get looky-lou’s with search engine traffic. There are others, but i’m a little tired right now.
Well, you are 50% correct. Blogs do indeed (hopefully) grow a loyal base of readership - I know I truly appreciate mine. But at the same time blogs are fundamentally just Web sites that happen to be a little more interactive.
This blog receives at least one new visitor from Google every minute of every day of the week. Yes, at least a couple of thousand new visitors per day. While it’s true that search traffic is often fickle, it’s also true that some percentage of readers will like what they see and bookmark it, link to it, or subscribe. For this reason it is very important not to develop the bad link neighborhood effect.
Now, most blogs use the rel=”nofollow” attribute on outbound links in comments which in theory should help protect you. But some blogs do not. Additionally, there have been some studies done that show that it is actually possible that Google is still assigning some value to links with Nofollow. So it’s always better to be safe than sorry.
John
The thing I like about this post if you have completely analyzed everything, from both the perspective of the commenter and the blogger. I agree with a lot of the points made, especially that Wordpress should enforce a Terms of Service by default.
One thing I must add though, is the point regarding links only to personal webpages. Arguably it’s hard to justify what exactly is a personal homepage. Obviously, it would be easy enough to clear out pages full of referall links or landing pages for affiliate products. But what you said about providing a link that shows who you are, I believe it doesn’t just have to be a webpage about your life. It shouldn’t necassarily be a blog where you post things about your everyday life regularly. I own several blogs, and they are who I am. They may be related to small niches, but they are still who I am. It is my mind, and my knowledge that I am sharing. I write because it’s what I love, especially the things I write about - not to hide a bunch of ads and affiliate links in.
Luke,
Perhaps I need to clarify more, but when I use the the term “personal URL” I don’t mean that the link needs to go to a biographical page about you. Just that it needs to go to a site that lets me know what your interest are and somewhere has information about you on it.
In your case, I understand that you are a huge fan of Tupac. I’ve got no problem with that. But why in the world don’t you have an “about me” page on the site where you introduce yourself? You should be saying on that page, “Hi, I’m Luke. I’m Tupac’s #1 fan! I live in Kalamazoo, MI, I’m a student at XYZ University, and I also run these other Web sites - X, Y, Z…”
I mean, what if Tupac was himself surfing and came across your site and wanted to contact you to tell you he appreciates the site? He would have no idea who was behind it and would keep moving on.
One question I have for you. And be honest… have you read my “about” page? If so, how did it affect the way you view this site?
John
I agree entirely with you on the point that a site should not necessarily be about the author as an individual. Often times an example of the persons works or interests best describe them as a person without an unnecessary and potentially irresponsible revealing of personal information.
Certainly I am not advocating that you post personally revealing information on your site. Each person has their own comfort level as to how much they want to reveal, and it is well established that I am a long time advocate of anonymity on the Web.
At the same time, anonymity always has a cost, and if you choose it you should never expect equal treatment with people like Lorelle, Matt Cutts, Matt Mullenweg, myself, Hrafn Thorisson, Lisa Marie Mary, Adi or the many thousands of bloggers who make their identities known.
I completely disagree with you that someone’s work or interest best describe them. That statement essentially values a person’s output more than their humanity. You could read my resume and be really impressed with the fact that I went to Harvard Business School, Founded HTMLHelp.com, and was a VP in a global company by the age of 30. But none of that is who I am, and besides it’s boring enough to send you off to someone else far more interesting.
But if I tell you I’m a guy who loves gadgets, things that burn gasoline, climbing dormant volcanoes, and I can sing every single word of the Humpty Dance… well, that’s a hell of a lot more interesting isn’t it?
John
Good views from both ends, blogger and reader. Keep up the good work
Okay, well I think you have an interesting idea. Could you please clarify, when you say “personal url’s” do you mean… for example only linking to the about page of the blog, or is it okay to link to the blog itself?
A few other thoughts:
1) I would argue that there is insufficient cognative disatance for theory to become practice. A simple example here is the idea of recycling. Say I get 5 cents to return a bottle. Five cents isn’t really enough $ to justify (feel good about) the value in recycling, so I must find within myself another “good reason” to return my recylables (ie: I’m helping the environment and that makes me feel good). This is not the case with blogs, if submitting a link gets traffic back to my site that is plenty of reason to justify my comment and thus the practice actually encourages spam.
2) I agree with TOS, they are important documents, and so are about pages. However, you must ask yourself are people really reading them? My experiance is that SPAMMERS wil SPAM regardless of what is in a TOS. They’ll hit 100 sites and if 25 don’t reject them..then it’s a good day. People who take the high road and don’t spam, will continue good practices regardless of TOS. Good commentors will apply their own philsophy to everything they do regardless of a particular sites TOS.
3) People are greedy. It’s unavoidable. You have a high PR site, and lots of traffic. People want a share of that traffic. I personaly found your site because it has a high PR. Your blog has some great comments, but I suspect even the best of your commentors have to admit to some traffic sharing motivation. Even if it’s only 1% of the motiviation it will still exist to some extent.
4) Right or Wrong, in a wierd way, I think SPAM is an indicatator to your blog popularity. The more SPAM your getting the more your site is known, and the more desirable it is to spammers.
..Anyway that’s my 2 cents for what its worth. I wonder will using the word SPAM so much cause this comment to be removed?
BradDet,
Thanks for the insightful commentary. I just answered your question regarding personal URLs in the previous comment so I’ll let you take a look at that. Now, on to your other comments:
So, the moral to the story here is that we are talking about both a carat (URL embedding) and a stick (threat of comment deletion). So for this reason it is important to outline the TOS so that people understand why you hit them when they cross the line.
John
PS - The word SPAM didn’t do it, but I think the link to Wikipedia is what put your comment into moderation. Never fear though, I approved it as soon as I saw it!
Thank-you for your thanks
LOL - I love the golden girls reference !
So if we think of spam as a “crime”, and “tos” as the law, and removing a post as the “punishment”, are you in fact implying that if there weren’t laws and punishment there would be more crime? I often wonder about this myself. How many people don’t do things simply because they are illegal? I tend to do only those things that allow me to still look at myself in the mirror, and would probably continue to do so regardless of what the laws are…but I admit I have to think more about that point. I agree that communicating expectations is very important but I’m not sure it applies to moral truths.
Furthermore, lets consider the Google Adsense program. They have a listed TOS, and I know for a fact that they work hard to enforce it, I have heard horror stories of people being banned without warnings and without any explanation (which is google’s right)..but even at that level, click fraud abounds…perhaps that’s slightly off topic though.
For what it’s worth that’s why I like your top commentors plugin (which doesn’t have no-follow. So people who post regular postings can have a no-follow, but people who are serious about it get rewarded.
..And speaking of dangling a carrot, your comment “Greed is good”. I don’t think I could disagree more. Sure greed is a part of life, everyone is greedy, it might even be “human nature”, but I don’t see anything good about it at all. In fact, I suspect it will lead to our ultimate distruction some day….Ubuntu…that’s the way to live life (the philosophy not the O/S..which is cool too)
I’m not sure the analogy is a perfect fit in this case, but if I were to run with it I’d say that generally in the Blogosphere we are currently living in a lawless, punishment free state because most blogs will allow just about any comment to stand. I am advocating the instatement of law in the form of TOS + Post Deletion.
First, that was actually a tongue-in-cheek quote from the movie Wall Street. But more importantly it was a reference to Adam Smith’s theory of Capitalism that states that it works precisely because everyone is pursuing their own self interest. I equate self-interest with greed.
Now speaking of self interest, and seeing as to how we are commenting in the thread about links in comments, I’m going to put you on the spot a little bit…
Since I just practically wrote a book on the topic here, with the main point being that commenters should use a personal URL when commenting, how did you arrive at the decision to use BWebCentral.com as your link (I removed the link from your name for now)?
I can’t find anything on that URL that even remotely lets me know who you are. And in today’s Web that could very well mean that you are a comment spammer in disguise, posting for pay, or simply trying to promote a commercial site. I mean really, why would anyone be tempted to lend credibility to any argument you make when they have no idea who you are, what you stand for, or if you are just some sneaky SPAMmer’s made up persona?
I’m not trying to be harsh, but I am trying to illustrate a point. Because this is what is in the back of people’s minds when they encounter a user posting under a pseudonym (like “BradDet”) and using an anonymous URL like BWebCentral.
John
Excellent point !. The truth is I co-own the site with a friend. From my very first read of your post has indeed prompted me to write an ‘about page’ to explain the philosophy behind the site and a bit amount myself as well. I hope to have it finished and published tomorrow.
Once the page is up, feel free to check it out and see what you think. I believe in essence we both feel the same way about spam. However, what we are trying to create is more “social” in the blogsphere and the web in general. I believe everyone has at least one good thing to say and should have have a fair shot at his/her 5 minutes of fame. (Still working on the wording). This is not to say they’ll get it, but I’d like our members to have a readership greater then just themselves whenever possible.
I’m finding it is a fine line to walk, essentially we are trying to promote others articles in a non-spammy way and we are doing it for free. At least in terms of $, we do of course have some self interest motives as well.
For the record your site is popular, far more popular then mine. It is obvious that hard work has got you where you are and your blog postings are awesome. Regardless of any difference we may find in our views I respect your ideas presented. I also like to add my own perspective as colorful as it may be and I appreciate the chance to present them here. I look forward to continuing to read your posts and commenting on them…regardless of whether I get a backlink or not
I’m glad that I’ve inspired you to create the About page! And I can’t wait to actually learn a little about who you are!
Remember, it doesn’t have to be perfect right out of the gate. You’ll refine and revise the message over time…
I’ve also enjoyed our dialog and look forward to many healthy exchanges in the future.
John
John P. I had asked you in the post about the top ten comments hack. You seen the link to my personal blog http://www.sheley.org
is it okay if I link to my site journal http://forum.vbulletinsetup.com/blogs/brandons-blog/ ?
If not, I’ll change it back to sheley.org.
The site journal talked about my life and I post on it more often then the sheley.org site, so it’s updated more and will give you good insight about my life
Brandon,
Sorry, I meant to reply to you previously but forgot. Yes, that URL is just as good because it lets us actually get to know who you are. And that is really all this is about.
John
Thanks John P
I was checking our your about page, you’ve had some nice sites and url.. htmlhelp.com Nice
I seen your into metal art, you might be interested in checking out my wifes blog http://www.a-sheley.com
she went to school for art and now she’s in advertising…. go figure..lol
We started doing art shows last year, they’ve been alot of fun
This was a really interesting read because I’ve noticed some of the points that you bring up, but I’ve never sat down to really translate those thoughts and feelings into words. I appreciate the effort.
I try to be someone that removes rel=”nofollow” from author links, but I’m heavily starting to consider changing that practice to have something more along the lines of what you’re doing (rewarding frequent commentators with a link in the sidebar). It’s been a bit of a struggle as of now because I don’t feel all too comfortable letting anyone and everyone automatically giving themselves a link from my page to theirs.
In any case, that was a bit of an aside. I think that comments are some of the best parts of blogging because it makes it more into a conversation than otherwise. Personally I really enjoy responding to comments. It’s quite nice to be able to comment here and get responses (sometimes).
Nice analysis of comment motivation.
You were talking about which specific URL people link to with their comments link - surely it depends!
First of all, some people will have only one single webpage. Or they have one website and believe that the canonical URL is the best place to link to (and it’s probably the shortest to type too!).
Then there’s the “landing-page” idea - even subconsciously most people will want to link to a contextual page, not deep-link into the middle of something that the visitor may or may not have context for.
Next you’ll have people, like myself, with more than one website with vastly different topics. The site we link to will probably be dependent on the nature of the site the comment is left on. E.g. if I’m commenting on sports related site’s I’m going to link to my sports blog, but if I’m on Matt Cutts blog I’m going to link to my seo site. The later is far more relevant to the blogger and his readers than the former.
Finally, I’ve linked you to my business site with a picture of me looking like a mafiosa
Cheers,
Alastair.
Alastair,
First of all, that is an awesome photo! Are you wearing a shoulder holster under there?
You are absolutely correct about the complexity involved with the choice of places to link to. Don’t forget, people also have MySpace, Flickr, LinkedIn and other sites as choices as well!
Keep in mind that this post is really in draft format because as far as I’m aware I’m the first person to actually try to put a framework around this concept and I’m sure it still needs some refinement. But to me the main point is just that people use a URL that allows us to get to know one another.
I realize that sometimes a persons main persona is tied directly into a commercial site that they own. For example BradDet above and his BWebCentral site. This makes for some difficult decisions where the Blogger is concerned. Let’s say that BradDet adds an About page and on it he explains that this is his site, he loves it, his mission is X, etc. Whoever’s blog he comments on using that URL is going to have to make a decision as to whether or not it meets the requirements.
In many cases people are going to decide that NO, it does not. BradDet will be punished in those instances. So, what options does he have? Plenty…
The key here is just not to have a landing page which people will immediately be turned off by because it seems entirely commercial.
I don’t know about you, but when I click on someone’s name I’m trying to learn who they are. If I can’t readily determine that I’m instantly turned off and go away never to return.
John
(Oh, btw on my SEO blog I use the DoFollow plugin)
John,
I appreciate your reply. I guess you are right about the About Me page, and now I think about it I really can’t come up with an excuse or a reason why I haven’t created one. I used to have an ‘About’ page, but that was simply information regarding the site. You know, when I get home from work I’m going to do that :).
And yes, I have read your About page. Infact that was one of the first things I did when I first stumbled accross your blog. It enforces my trust in you, and I believe supports the bond between you, your blog, and us.
Regards.
Ok great! That is exactly why I have the about page there! And it works just like that for everyone, so you get a real live demonstration of why you should have one on your site as well!
John
Sorry about the double comment, but I forgot to add at the end. I’m not sure if you’re aware, but Tupac died back in 1996 =?
Actually, I guess I did know that but just forgot… I remember him from back in the day when he got his start with the Digital Underground. Who would have ever guessed he’d turn out so big?
Anyway, I think you get the point - genericly speaking - that people might want to know who you are, and giving them an about page makes it easy for them to contact you.
John
Yes I get the idea mate, and I’ll be sure to create an ‘About Me’ page soon. I don’t know why I’ve always just pushed that idea aside, but you have given me good reasoning to go ahead with it.
And about Tupac, I wasn’t sure if you was being funny or not :D. I’m glad you know you’re stuff, and I just thought I would let you know for future reference incase you was obvlivious to his demise.
Luke.
I agree with your reasoning behind your actions - If I was in your position I would hate people just trying to abuse the commentator authors links, etc. I think comments are healthy on any blog, but only when they are used correctly. If theres nothing for a commentator to gain, then they wont comment - unless they are REALLY interested in the subject.
I have thoroughly enjoyed this post and the ensuing conversation - I haven’t felt, though, that I’ve had a logical and intelligent opinion to contribute. I am definitely more a feeler than a thinker and so I do have this to say:
While it is true that one of my favorite places in the world (the internet) is disgustingly infected with spammers, scammers, and scumbags - I have also found it to be true that another type of individual roams these web waters. And that is the person with a genuine heart, plugging away day after day, much to the chagrin of the family usually, to make a go of this ‘work online’ thing. This person starts to make a little progress and is so excited! They meet John Doe or Jane Doe online, who is just a step or two behind them - and bends over backwards to help them get ahead. Then John or Jane reciprocates, or pays it forward.
There are so many wonderful people like this online, in the blogging world, in the WAHM world, in the internet marketing arena - and in the various crossovers of these. I have been moved time and time again witnessing, and receiving, the help that is freely doled out. Exhibit A - this blog. Shouldn’t we pay tuition, or something?
So what I am saying is, if a genuine person such as these I’ve mentioned comes along, I am more than willing to spread the link juice. I know they’ll return it to me, or return it to others, or make it big (big to me=fulltime income) and teach others how to, as well.
That is one thing that has truly amazed me in my years online - the generosity of IM’ers, bloggers, and WAHM’ers! I have never, nor expect I will ever, seen so much ‘helping out the next guy’ in any other line of work.
This comment could be totally off-topic, or completely on-target, depending on how you look at it, I guess.
I think you’re right on target Lisa. I actually believe that the vast majority of people we encounter online are really decent people with good hearts. The problem is that the really evil people (>5%) set up robots and make a real mess of things. We have to constantly remember that this is the very vocal minority - and that is why Spam should not be tolerated, or rewarded. I think there should be seriously harsh penalties.
I also think this is very on-topic because if we all acknowledge that the world is like this, then it’s easy to understand why we have to each go to greater lengths to ensure that people are aware that we are one of the good guys. Hence, the use of our name or handle, along with a link that backs up our claim about who we actually are!
John
Yep! I totally agree!
Excellent, John. Very well done.
I have no problem with anonymity on the web. I believe it is important to protect yourself FIRST. However, as you have so wisely said, there is a difference between anonymity and using search terms and keywords in your “name” and signing your comments with a resume including links, and participating as a commenter interested in the content and the ability to trace the comment back to “you” and your blog.
The first reeks of greed and narcissism, and the second, continues a conversation beyond the blog post, if the reader so desires.
As for blogs not having a “terms of use”, many do. Mine is called a “policy”, which covers more than just comments but also legal issues. Others call it their “comments policy”, “legal”, “terms”, and other words to describe their policies, conditions, and terms of use.
Still, these need updating as technology and culture changes around blogs. I need to update mine on my main blog, so thanks for the reminder.
[...] Recently, John Pozadzides of One Man’s Blog has been on a campaign to help bloggers consider adding a “Terms of Use”, “Comments Policy”, or “Blog Policy” to our blogs to help readers, commenters, and users understand where the blogger stands on what they will and will not allow on their blogs. In Time Wasting Blog Comments, Comments Policies, and Comment Etiquette, I covered some of what John proposed in his article, Terms of Use and Universal Comment Link Philosophy, and he also covers the subject of link spamming in comments in Terms of Use and Universal Comment Link Philosophy. In this post I will attempt to enumerate the reasons, causality and consequences to justify the argument that the blogging community needs to unite under a common philosophy regarding the use of links and author names in comments. I will also suggest an introductory framework to deal with the issue, most notably the institution of Terms of Use for all blogs. [...]