One Mans Blog
Specialization is for Insects.
Posted on Sep 19, 2007 - 1:29am by John P. in Philosophy, Videos
Ok. I can’t wait to see the comments on this one. Some people are going to laugh at it, some are going to be angry, and some will be preachy. I hope we don’t get into a debate about whether God exists. We’ve already done that here.
I can only guess that some kid’s brother filmed his mom cursing him out after he announced he was an atheist. It’s obvious that the camera was placed on a table and then quickly taken away when it appeared the parents might see it.
I can imagine that the two brothers took a look at the video, then the one that got lambasted decided to post it to get back at his mom. And it does look really, really bad for her… Imagine when her friends, co-workers and relatives see this.
Someone needs to answer the question whether it’s right to force religion on a child or not. I’m sure many people will argue “yes” because we are “saving their eternal soul” and that is in their best interests. But if there is a God, did he not give each person the freedom to choose?
Besides, there are much more effective ways of dealing with disbelief than getting up in a kid’s face and cursing them out. Force does not change minds - even if it silences dissent.
Of course, here is letter from Dr. Richard Dawkins to his daughter as an example of another way to examine the concept of God’s existence.
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Funny, this is remarkably similar to my father chewing me out for looking at Wiccan sites back in middle school. They took me out of Catholic Primary after 2 years, partially because I was hauled to the principal’s office (see: nun with a hobby) for colouring the virgin Mary’s face brown in kindegarten. You see, my parents’ first mistake was to let me watch the Discovery Channel while in attendance to a religious school. I’ve always used thought as my first line of defense against… well… pretty much anything, and blind faith apparently wasn’t on my menu.
That’s funny Becca.
I’ll have to remember that one.
John
People over re-act to things all the time, I’m not making excusing I’m just saying, that if everyone put a video up every time a parent over re-acted, there would not me much disk space for other videos. I am sure we have all been guilty of opening our mouth before thinking things through but YouTube just shows our “mistakes” to the rest of the world.
We should remember that religion is a way to force control over people (individuals and society). One may argue that may not be religions’ main purpose, and it should not be a part of religion, but we cannot deny that it IS a part of religion. It gives people power..and we know the adage about absolute power.
It is also a prime example of “road to hell paved with good intentions”. As a parent myself, I want to pass on my values (the good ones at least), on to my children. Though I suspect my methodology is different. We also have to accept that people will choose their own beliefs and values as they get older and we can only hope to give them “good start”
I might also assert that force (properly implemented) can very well change minds, if you consider things like brainwashing, terror tactics, and similar social control as “force”. Consider George Orwell’s book 1984 and 2 + 2 = 5
Brad,
I agree that we all make mistakes, and sometimes say things without thinking that we later regret. It would be a shame if this was an isolated knee-jerk reaction and it was posted to the web.
On the other hand, that lady seemed waaay to comfortable getting up in her kid’s face and screaming and cursing at him. It makes me think it was her modus operandi - and I’m guessing the kid finally had enough and hence the video posting.
John
It’s funny how different people can see things different ways. To me I think it was a total setup. I think the kids knew their mom would re-act that way, I don’t even think the kids is really an atheist, he was just trying to get his mom worked up so they could tape it and put it on youtube, and his mom fell for it.
Again, I’m not trying to defend her re-action, we are all responsible for our own re-actions, but it seemed a little staged to me.
I have 2 young boys right now (under 2) who are being raised with my religion and values right now and as much as I want them to grow up and continue what I have taught them , I cannot force that and I would never cuss them out for choosing a different path.
Although I don’t think I particularly agree with the son posting the video either. Parents do make mistakes.
Alexia,
I believe you have the right attitude. Teach your children, but in the end realize they have choice.
Personally, no matter how badly I was treated I would not have posted video of my family. I fear they are going to regret that for a long, long time.
John
If my kids decide to believe things that are contrary to my beliefs, I gotta think that I would calm enough to sit down and talk with them about it. Get their side of things. Understand where they’re coming from.
Of course, if we had to get to that point, I probably had been doing some terrible parenting along the way.
I think we should start a Christmas Fund for this kid, there are enough Agnostics out there to buy him a new roof to live under.
Greg,
I was waiting for you to chime in on this one, and as usual you did not disappoint.
If we only knew who the kid was I would actually do that!
John
I aim to please (and to piss off anyone that agrees with the parenting skills of this crazy Churchie)
It is sorta sickening that she uses christmas as a bribe (and now a threat). I feel for this kid because unfortunately with parents like that god comes first before their kids.
He looks around to be at least 15, surely at that age they are smart enough to choose their own path.
I am very familiar with Catholicism and find for most people it’s a close but no cigar branch of Christianity. I think that mom is probably a good mom and has the right concern but she has an incomplete relation with Christ and is dealing very emotionally with a teenager. I don’t use that kind of language with anyone but my own teenager is one that can push me to having those words almost on my tongue.
The kids were wrong on a number of levels, we all should honor our mothers and fathers. They will live to regret posting that on line.
Yikes! That just totally makes me cringe! On two levels. I tell my children what my beliefs are and I have always told them about other beliefs openly and honestly. (Although, come to think of it, I don’t think atheism has ever come up - may have to talk to them about that, too. And agnosticism, of course.) A lot of parts of organized religion make a lot of people uncomfortable, and I don’t ever want my children to feel boxed into something that makes them uncomfortable.
Maybe I’m cringing on three levels, because, my next thoughts are really two parts. She is being a total b*tch mom, and that is totally freaky that it’s been aired on the internet.
But also, I’ve had some serious b*tch mom moments. I feel horrible and quickly apologize to my children, letting them know that I know that my behavior and words were wrong. And I’d hate to have one of my icky moments published to the web.
So this is just creepy from all kinds of directions.
And I definitely must add, that I am ever so grateful that the internet was not around during my teen and young-twenty years - those were just not pretty years for me. Have you read some of these kids’ blogs? Eeks. I’ve got a whole binder full of garbage just like it. The thought of ‘you guys’ reading it?! *cringe-ola*
Yeah, this one is scary all around. Especially because it is really something that none of us should be seeing.
John
Hah, I kind of wonder if this one was perhaps staged. It’s still pretty hilarious though. Yes, indeed, no Christmas for you if you’re going to go all atheist on me! I had a lot of debates like this when I was a kid and resisting my parents’ (albeit liberal) form of Christianity. I’m just glad they aren’t the kind of folks who disown for that sort of thing
It just seems to me that if this were staged, someone would have been taking credit for it. There would be a web site or an identifiable individual behind it. But in this case it seems to be very anonymous. That is what leads me to believe it is legit…
John
Yes, I see your point but if it was not staged, but was used as some type of revenge would not this also imply someone wanting to take credit for it?
What I find so ironic about some peope that claim to be relgious is the vicious nature of how they react if it’s questioned.
That goes for most of the main relgions.
I do belive in God, just not in man made religions, written and re-written to suit a purpose or end aim.
People who act visiously or are otherwise defiensive, generally have their own ’sub-conscious’ doubts themselves, are are responding likely how they were responded to when they first raised there doubts.
..perhaps a bit to much phsyc and not phil in there, sorry
I understand what your saying, that it’s not right to “label” all relgious people as being aggresive, eithier verbally or physically when their faith is questioned.
Maybe it comes from some inner frustration about being able to match Todays life, and the question’s that it throw’s at us, along with what we are taught is correct from a young age.
Some kind of “How can that happen” Vs ” I belive in my faith”
You have nothing to be sorry about, I am neither a Psychologist, or Philospher
Neither do I spell very well, but I try ^_^
I have to object that you spelled it “athiest”
This mother is clearly not the athiest, though perhaps her son is the athiest atheist of them all.
This is pretty sad. Everyone is commenting (rightly) on the mother and her apparent hypocrisy but did anyone notice the father during all of this? I don’t think this kid is really interested in Theism or Atheism. He isn’t having a conflict of faith but is just trying to exert his independence and control over his parents and mother takes the bait and his father is completely disengaged. I know there is more to this scenario than just the 45 second clip but it does speak a lot about the dynamics of that household.
I think that forcing religion on a child should be considered as a child abuse.
Hmm..Don’t know if I would go that far, to some extent I expect I am always “forcing” my kid to do one thing or another. Sometimes we ‘force’ our kids to do things that we think is for “their own good”.
I think if the kids grows up and ends up resending his/her own parents that might be sufficient pusnishment..but is it really abuse, perhaps if it was an emotional attack designed to reduce a kids confidence of self-esteem from choosing different beliefs..or a physical attack then yes, but I don’t think I would classify “threating to remove christmas” as abuse, stupid maybe, shortsighted, but not abuse.
Christianity is an emotional attack designed to reduce kids’ confidence. It’s the threat that if you don’t believe in Jehovah and his Zombie Son, you’re going to Hell, complete with fire, mutant kittens, and Hitler serving brunch. If that’s not child abuse, I don’t know what is.
Think you maybe confusing Christianity, with other religions which branch out from it. (and some that don’t as well)
It is the right of every parent to raise their children as they think best, despite what others may think of their beliefs.
My aunt and uncle became vegetarians about a year before their son was born, and they raised him to be a vegetarian. On Thanksgiving, when my cousin was about two or three, he pulled some turkey off the table and started to eat it. My uncle ran into the room and made him spit it out. My family never said anything directly to my uncle, but they made fun of him behind his back, saying things like, “It’s not like it’s poison. It’s not going to kill him.”
While this was true, I reminded my family that he was the father, and it was his right to raise him as he saw fit. Yes, we could have our own opinions, but ultimately, the decision lay with the parents.
If my cousin grew up, and at fifteen started eating burgers at McDonald’s everyday, his parents would be just as upset as this mother was in this video.
That being said, I would hope they would not react in the same way as she did. I don’t find anything wrong with her trying to convince her child to believe in God, but I find a lot wrong with the manner in which she does it.
If we believe in God, we should do so for what he has done for us, and not what we’re told will be done to us.
i think the child has its own belief like as my belief god had created us and given us our own will,intellect,as the highest among god’s creation its up too does people to decide… as a 16 year old i should be concern, aware on every details i knew… its his decision and approval…
Oh, jeez… That’s the way to do it, lady. Use it like a punishment. Then he’ll “see the light.”
Is “Protestantism” one of these “other religions”?
Can’t say as I’m not protestant, but as far as I know, they don’t believe you will suffer and burn with eternal flames and brimstone for not believing.
Protestant actually means anything that’s not Catholic or Orthodox. So yeah they do believe in Hell. Wiki this next time…
Reply is down below, I don’t know why it didn’t stick…
Well then they’re representing themselves very, very poorly.
There’s a major difference between raising a kid as a vegetarian (half of India probably does already…) and indoctrinating them with religious belief. With the vegetarianism the health benefit is easily enough explained, and the kid could well see the positive benefits of such a dietary style.
Religion, especially Christianity, asks you to believe in supernatural events that occurred over 2000 years ago, and to have faith in what are essentially invisible and mythical beings. Also, the religion has a major “or else” component. Let’s face it - you *are* frightened into believing it.
Big time difference and really the two shouldn’t be compared - although one could argue there’s just as many vegetarian zealots out there as there are religious zealots proportionally.
Wow. As a born-again Christian I’d like to congratulate her on pulling the exact wrong move. Smooth. Now at least I know what not to do when a friend announces that they’re an atheist.
“Now you’re not going to get any presents for Christmas! Because that’s what Christmas is about! JESUS CHRIST!!! YEEEAGH!”
Not cool.
i am an atheist and if my mother forced her beliefs on me like that,she would be the one hangin from a cross not this bloke they call jesus
That happened to me. Only with two different families.
What sort of god would need anyone to market for him like that? Does god the all-everything really need black shirts? A zealot is a zealot, no matter what the religious mind set, and doesn’t it make religion look oh-so-inticing???