Think about how much better the world would be without anyone running around accusing others of being infidels and starting holy wars over the misinterpreted words of a long dead “prophet” who claimed he could talk to an invisible man in the sky?

First of all, is there such thing as the term laymuslim? Is there even such thing as a term muslim. Who are we humans to label and judge each other on our relations with God? If you wish to embrace Islam, you don’t need a worldly certificate or paper stating that ‘I am a muslim’ or ‘I am a muslim scholar’ to so call show that you are on a higher plane of existance as compared to the rest of us mortals.

Secondly, the teachings of the prophet is in the Quran. Period. His sole purpose is to convey the message from God.

4:54 Say: “Obey God, and obey the messenger.” But if they turn away, then he is only responsible for his obligation, and you are responsible for your obligations. And if you obey him, you will be guided. The messenger is only required to deliver clearly.

Majority of muslim live a life knowing that their only reference to God is through muslims scholars, people who are not only ‘knowledgeable’ but also ‘born’ from within a certain sect of the community. Nevermind whatever knowledge they have, but your claim of getting every muslim to go through ‘other books’ and other ‘people’ to understand it contradicts two major points in Islam

1) There is no intercession in Islam
2) The book (Quran) is explained in detail (and it doesn’t say you can beat your wife)
3) in the first verse/phrase itself, it has already stated ‘Only to you(God) we seek help’

To sum it up, when you go through the scholar /hadith path, you end up beating your wife. When you go through the Quran path, you will treat your wife like a princess untill either one of you dies…

“Specialisation is for insects…” is fine if you look at only simple things. But in the case of sciences, you have to specialise to be an expert. A layperson (or laymuslim) like me cannot give a qualified opinion on what is written in the Quran. This is because I do not know the background to the revelation of a specific verse. Islamic scholars study the Quran and teachings of the Prophet PBUH for many years in order to reach the level where they know when a verse was revealed to the Prophet PBUH, as well as the conditions surrounding the revelation of the verse. The Quran and the sayings of the Prophet PBUH are a science in their own right.

Good Muslim scholars are held in high esteem for the knowledge they can impart to their audiences. I have been to many lectures and know that you cannot take a Quranic verse in isolation and form your own conclusions. Many books have been written by qualified authors about the subjects raised in the Quran and are a good starting point to understanding the Quran.

Islam teaches us to seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave. This leads to your developing an understanding of the world you live in, and in so doing appreciate the Greatness of Allah who created everything from the mightiest galaxies to the tiniest insects.

“Islam is perfect, Muslims are not”.

Peace!

There is another position to be considered here. That of the Agnostic / Athiest who does not place value in the Bible or Quran other than as quality works of philosophy.

They would argue that you can believe whatever you like while you are here, so long as you do not force that belief on others or take actions as a result of your beliefs that serve to make other people’s lives miserable.

This is also the basis of the philosophy “separation of church and state”. Even Jesus said:

“Render unto Caesar that which is his, for mine is the kingdom of God.”

Clearly the intent was that we are to obey the laws of this world. And in the vast majority of countries the law does not permit beating one another. Indeed, I defy anyone here to find a single video espousing wife beating from any religion other than Islam.

I’m serious, find just one legitimate video of any other religion on this topic and I’ll create a separate post about it. But until then we must all be forced to admit that this is a uniquely Muslim characteristic.

John

“Let him who is without sin cast the first stone….”

….applies to both sides in this debate, and to all religions.

“Judge not that ye be not judged.”

Who are we to castigate others? Just mere human beings. God will work his ways with us and in his own time.

Those 2 quotes are from the Bible, but I’m sure the Quran has its own versions of them.

We can watch such videos / argue vociferously / read and quote the Quran or Bible / kill each other over ideology, till kingdom come.

The sad fact is, in a large majority of societies, an improvement in women’s status will never happen.

As for your interpretation of Quran 4:34 as you translated “Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them,” this honestly is such an obvious case of poor translation. the word you use as authority is more like a degree responsibility and the other word superior should be translated more like “to excel” so that it should read:

“Men have a degree over women because God has made one to excel other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them.”

There are numerous verses that proscribe for the equality of men and women in the eyes of God, please read the Quran as a book, not a list of quotes. I am running out of time, but I would like to invite you to email me and talk about Islam some more if you like. Take care,

Omar

stop hijacking my religion!

I disagree with the above statement, as, I’m sure, your wife does!!

You weirdo!

:P

I guess I made my point clear, and tried to show you how things are in Islam. Now if you don’t see things like me, or if you understand my point at least and don’t agree, I guess there is nothing more I can do.

See you!

WOW! Are you serious?
Even though I, too, think his interpretation is misleading, I wouldn’t go that far to ask/wish for him to be hanged. If everyone of us does each time a disagreement arises, imagine how the world would be. No need to imagine, the world is being like that, partially, now.

I don’t agree about removing the video, it’s giving us a solid ground for discussion.

• I have read much of the Quran (in English translation of course). I am of the opinion that what the man in this video is stating is one fair and accurate interpretation.
• The bottom line here is that Islam specifically allows wife-beating. How much, how little, or for what reason, is irrelevant. The principle behind it is that husbands are superior to their wives and therefore not only allowed, but encouraged to “keep them in line” even to the extent of physical force if necessary.
• This video is not some bigoted rant. It is an actual Islamic clerics opinion, and one that I am absolutely certain is shared by millions of Muslims and therefore cannot be defined in any way as “propoganda”. For that reason I will never remove it from this blog.
• When the entire Islamic community can come together and make a central decision regarding this issue it will negate the need for this debate to be waged.

John

@Derek Wong: You probably meant ‘the prejudices Americans have’. And believe me, beating is unpleasant to everyone, so don’t go thinking it’s acceptable in our religion, cultures or traditions.

I’m calling it a day now! See you!