Posted on Nov 20, 2008 - 2:47pm by John P. in Finance, News
I told you guys we were in a recession back in March, but now I fear we could move from a recession straight into a depression. Things could get really bad… Let’s examine shall we?
In economics, a depression is a sustained, long downturn in one or more economies. It is more severe than a recession, which is seen as a normal downturn in the business cycle. The mother of all modern depressions was of course the “Great Depression”:
The Great Depression was a worldwide economic downturn starting in most places in 1929 and ending at different times in the 1930s or early 1940s for different countries. It was the largest and most important economic depression in modern history, and is used in the 21st century as a benchmark in how far the world’s economy can fall. The Great Depression originated in the United States; historians most often use as a starting date the stock market crash on October 29, 1929, known as Black Tuesday. The end of the depression in the U.S. is associated with the onset of the war economy of World War II, beginning around 1939.
The depression had devastating effects in the developed and developing worlds. International trade was deeply affected, as were personal incomes, tax revenues, prices, and profits. Cities all around the world were hit hard, especially those dependent on heavy industry. Construction was virtually halted in many countries. Farming and rural areas suffered as crop prices fell by 40 to 60 percent. Facing plummeting demand with few alternate sources of jobs, areas dependent on primary sector industries such as farming, mining and logging suffered the most.
The majority of countries set up relief programs, and most underwent some sort of political upheaval, pushing them to the left or right. In some states, the desperate citizens turned toward nationalist demagogues - the most infamous being Adolf Hitler - setting the stage for World War II in 1939.
Here is a video outlining what happened that fateful day, which would take 15 years for the US to climb out of:
But to really examine this topic, we should go back a little further in time. How about 1837?
The Panic of 1837 was a panic in the United States built on a speculative fever. The bubble burst on May 10, 1837 in New York City, when every bank stopped payment in specie (gold and silver coinage). The Panic was followed by a five-year depression, with the failure of banks and record high unemployment levels.
A larger catalyst came in the form of the Bank of England. The Bank of England was not comfortable with the increased flow of funds into U.S. by British investors. To combat this negative flow of funds, the bank increased its deposit rate. The increase in the deposit rate made it more attractive for British investors to invest within the UK, thus pulling funds from the U.S. As with any “credit” bubble, once the available credit shrinks, the “crash” quickly ensues.
But wait, there’s more! As history so often repeats it’s self, the panic of 1837 was followed by the Panic of 1893.
The Panic of 1893 was a serious economic depression in the United States that was an extension of the Panic of 1873, and like that earlier crash, was caused by railroad overbuilding and shaky railroad financing which set off a series of bank failures. The Panic of 1893 was the worst economic crisis to hit the nation in its history to that point.
The 1880s had seen a period of remarkable economic expansion in the United States. In time, the expansion became driven by speculation, much like the “tech bubble” of the late 1990s, except that the preferred industry was railroads. Railroads were vastly over-built, and many companies tried to take over many others, seriously endangering their own stability.
As concern of the state of the economy worsened, people rushed to withdraw their money from banks and caused bank runs. The credit crunch rippled through the economy. European investors only took payment in gold, depleting US gold reserves, and threatening the US dollar’s value which was backed by gold. The investments during the time of the Panic were heavily financed through bond issues with high interest payments. As the demand for Silver and Silver notes fell, its price and value dropped. Holders worried about a loss of face value of bonds, and many became worthless.
A series of bank failures followed, and the price of silver fell. The Northern Pacific Railway, the Union Pacific Railroad and the Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe Railroad all failed. This was followed by the bankruptcy of many other companies; in total over 15,000 companies and 500 banks failed (many in the west). About 17%-19% of the workforce was unemployed at the Panic’s peak. The huge spike in unemployment, combined with the loss of life savings by failed banks, meant that a once secure middle class could not meet their mortgage obligations. As a result, many walked away from recently built homes. From this, the sight of the vacant Victorian (haunted) house entered the American mindset.
There have been other crisis as well. 1873, 1907, but this one is shaping up to be one for the record books. (Thanks to StockCharts.com for this graph by the way.)
So, since everyone is comparing our current predicament to The Great Depression (pf 1929), one thing to keep in mind is that the market took 7 years to return to half it’s 1929 value, and 25 years to return to completely recover. So all I can tell you guys is that it’s time to be very conservative and careful right about now. We could be in for a long, long ride.
But wait - you say! Hold everything! Why the heck am I so pessimistic all of a sudden? Well, I’d argue that it’s not all that sudden, but anyway… let me tell you.
Even with the S&P down more than 70% from its peak, the entire sector still has more pain ahead, says John Roque, of Natixis Bleichroeder, based on the historical peak-to-trough declines of past market manias, including:
Part of the problem with the markets is that no one can predict what is going to ultimately help take us out of this recession. Is it going to be investment in alternative energies? Is someone going to invent a new world changing widget? What’s it going to take? I mean, until something comes along that makes everyone want to invest in it, we’re going to be stagnant at best.
Anyone care to take a guess at where all of this is going?
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Great post mate, i think the biggest recession will come.
Alot of people dont have the money to buy stuff, so the market and big companies dont produce products anymore.Alot of campanies gone down.
You have presented a fair amount of similarity between that which caused the depression long ago, and that which could come about in the near future. It does appear that you are right in that there would have to be some determining factor that would have to be created in order to direct more traffic/interest/product toward the United States. A new technology that changed the way things work could change the course of events, but there is also the concept that some don’t want “rough times” to end. There is somewhat of a battle in place between those that are hurt by a recession and those that benefit from a recession.
I think the worst is yet to come unfortunately. the DOW may hit 4000 before it’s over. Real Estate is in the tank and will stay that way for a long, long time. The ones who will profit from real estate in the future will be landlords over rental properties. Watch for rental housing to be in very high demand in the future. Banks are going back to the old way of doing business. 20% down and good credit and job history. How many people do you know who can put $30K down on a $150K home? Not many. Unless housing problem is solved, it’s lights out. Sorry to be a Debbie Downer.
I wonder how much validity there is to the theory that the more worried the public gets, the less it spends, making the economy worse. However, it’s probably a good thing that the American public start reducing their personal credit card debt.
One bit of good news, today : Timothy Geithner as Treasury Secretary. Let’s hope he’s nominated. I don’t think there is any super widget to get the world out, but a good team is a start: it will no doubt get worse before it gets better, and the US may lose some “supremacy” (whatever that means), by the time it’s all over - but I think it will be over.
As much as I hope you’re wrong (for the sake of the economy), I fear that I agree with you. The bailout concept was certainly a slippery slope and a mistake. I just arrived in Europe a few hours ago, switched on CNN while unpacking and have been listening to reports of more and more European countries planning to bail out industries or even individual companies…the world is in for an interesting economic time in the upcoming 18 months.
A lot of people are comparing this to the hyper-inflation of the Weimar Republic. Mostly because of the huge deficit we’re racking up. Either way, it’s not good.