This is not meant to be offensive to anyone, but I found it educational to understand the depths of the Islamic religious basis for the status of women in society. So far as I am aware there is no similar religious teaching in Christianity, Buddhism, or other major religions – although I’m sure someone will correct me if that is not true.
Muslims in general may not bat an eye towards this philosophy, as it may be so ingrained into the culture so as not to be noticed, but I have to wonder how this edict works in the United States where spousal abuse is a crime and can land a man in jail.
The Koran (Quran) instructs men to beat their wives.
QURAN 4:34 – “Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them.
Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them.
As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme.”
And here is a Muslim cleric expounding on the proper way to beat a wife. I find it interesting that at one point he says “…she is not his merchandise…”, yet no one seems to see the hypocrisy in one human beating another – whom they do not “own” – to exert control.
Then again, perhaps he is simply wrong to have said that and the woman is indeed the husband’s merchandise.
See http://www.Quran434.com for an explanation of this verse. What you think?
One more thing I wanted to say. Age and experience aren’t responsible for your views. I know many young people who think a long your lines and I know many people your age, with vast life experience who have gone the other way.
And a final note – in my posts some words due to writing this on iPhone were changed by the dictionary. If a word doesn’t make sense please use context and guess lol.
To recognize our ignorance as wisdom this is true ignorance
to recognize our wisdom as ignorance this is true wisdom
– Lao tzu
Some final points.
I am not Muslim. Holding a position is not bias, bias is holding a position die to anything but facts.
I do not believe in a supernatural being. However, I keep my mind open to ideas beyond duality like Allah, Tao, pure reality or whatever, but would recognize any experience of such a concept would be purely confined to a limited human mind anyway. I have no religion, never have. Often wish I could, I have looked very indepth at most major world religions and philosophies but it when it comes to an literal afterlife I couldn’t believe it in anyway. I take what I can from what I can nothing more.
Maybe I am wrong. Maybe you are. Maybe time will see.
Next, people are created equal in one sense – that they are human and deserve certtain rights and respect. Some are tall, some short, some are intelligent some not so much…in many respects we are not equal.
The superiority of men, or more correctly, that in which men exceed women, primarily in the context of the verse is earning capacity. In Arabia 1400 years ago most women could not support themselves at all. Thus, men were ordered to responsibly support women, their wives. If you watched the video by Hamza yusuf you will see that he says this is a rule but exceptions happened in the time of the prophet and where women did not need this they obviously controlled their own finances and there is a Hadith showing that in some cases where men couldn’t work the wives supported them. Muhammad’s wde herself was an independent rich merchant.
Why should you not support me? You are not obligated to under this verse since I am capable of providing for myself. If however you were my wife and I was disabled etc and you could do so you should. In fact, every Muslim is obligated as or of the 5 pillars of Islam to give a small percentage of their wealth to support the poor, needy and disabled in society. So this principle is consistent.
Hi John,
I also agree to leave this as an agree to disagree situation. I actualy in my first post did say I wouldn’t get involved because to properly discuss this as you said could go on forever. I will just make a few closing points though, briefly as possible.
Firstly, I will not speak for the vast majority of Muslims on the issue of wife beating, although there is a problem I am not in a position to say of it is a majority. However, I will say the majority of Muslims probably are idiots. The majority of Christians, Hindus, buddhists, atheists and agnostics are also probably idiots in my opinion – look at the world. But I still feel whether or not you agree or disagree with a religion you have to judge it by doing your beat to remove it’s adherents stupidity and look strictly at it’s teachings. For example a violent “Christian” does not mean Jesus taught violence, even ifhe claims the violence is in the name of Jesus.
Here is the correct translation of verse 4:34;
“The men are to support the women by what God has gifted them over one another and for what they spend of their money. The reformed women are devotees and protectors of privacy what God has protected. As for those women from whom you fear disloyalty, then you shall advise them, abandon them in the bedchamber, and separate them; if they obey you, then do not seek a way over them; God is High, Great.”
And here is a talk by someone actually qualified to open their mouth on the matter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDEKJDgXO-U&feature=related
Once again I would just like to say I think it is highly irresponsible of the author to have written citing one possible English translation without doing any proper research at all into the matter. A quick Google would quickly show that there are a number of interpretations and the one chosen by the author is not widely accepted amongst the educated Muslims. By educated I mean properly educated, not just anyone who takes on the title ‘sheikh’ but someone like Hamza Yusuf who has studied intensively with proper scholars with a lineage. Also the translation ‘superior’ is something I have rarely seen in the 5 or 6 translations I own. The translations I prefer (and I mean overall, not just for this verse) both use sometihng to the extent “by what God has given one more than the other.”
Perhaps the author did genuinely mean well, saw a verse, heard a talk by some idiot advocating violence against women, and was understandably outraged. However, claiming that the Quran tells someone “in black and white” while probably citing some half-literate orientalists translation is just not the way to discuss an issue.
Anyone can write on the internet. But what do you want to achieve with your writing? To really stimulate an exchange of ideas and improve the thinking of people? Or to add fuel to the fire that see Muslim women being abused every day as they walk down the street simply because of the xenophobic conditions you helped contribute to?
By all means, speak out against domestic violence. By all means, speak out against a culture that fosters it (but preferably speak out against all conditions that foster it equally). And by all means even speak out against a “muslim” culture which may mean a large portion of uneducated people accept domestic violence. But do not Googling for cheap fodder to use in degrading a religion that is not the cause. Do not further increase the separation and hatred in the world by further demonizing a culture that has already been so disproportionately attacked.
And if you want your intellect to be respected at all do not start an article with “This is not meant to be offensive to anyone…” and follow it up with comments like “because of any ancient text written by someone who literally didn’t even know the Earth was round or what oxygen is.” If you sincerely didn’t want to offend people why would you insult the holy book of almost a quarter of the planet, suggesting its falsity? Also, Islam also contributed immensely to science. While Christendom still thought the Earth was the centre of the Universe and killing dissenters, Muslims were understanding the Universe. The numbers you use, algebra, even the algorithm used in your computer comes from Muslim scientists. Islam encouraged objective understanding of the world in the Quran itself. And I some how doubt your views on the Quran.
So are you a racist? A Xenophobe? Maybe you didn’t mean to be….or are you an objective person? Are you fuelling hate or trying to better the world?
I hope in the future you write more objectively and think a bit more, it is weird having to try and educate someone who is about twice my age….
To continue…
Now what you are telling me is that among Muslims the PROPERLY educated ones don’t accept the notion of beating women. But that only tells me that the vast majority of all Muslims actually DO believe it since they have been following the Quran for at least 14 centuries – and only in very, very recent history have the masses really had access to any sort of higher learning. Think about this carefully, and don’t tell me about what other religions do – I know all religions exploit people. And it’s not a justification (well, we’re not as bad as THEM).
Yes. Many, many, many times.
Sadly, I won’t engage further with you in this discussion. But not for any reason you’ll likely understand. You see I just don’t care what you think. I have a complete and total apathy for religion in a way that you will never understand, unless you one day abandon it.
Right now you are obviously young and fiery and full of vigor to defend those beliefs that you hold so core to your view of the world. (You are also extremely foolish to assume that I never did so myself.) But if you are truly half my age then you have only been a man for a few years at most. Its likely you have yet to experience true happiness, absolute loss, betrayal, the death of close friends and family, political service, travel around the world, the responsibility of supporting a family, decades of marriage, military service, real failure, tremendous success, and much much more. All of which I have.
Perhaps as you get older you will evaluate not only the words on a page like this, but also the experience of the man behind them and ask yourself “what does he know that I don’t?” If you took the time to do that, you may find out that my personal views are shaped by the reality of the world we live in today, and a real desire to make an immediate and measurable impact in it. Not based on an ancient religion that outlines what someone else’s view of a perfect society was so long ago that no living person even knows the name of their own ancestors who lived in it.
Cheers,
John P.
I am not going to get into the argument, as I don’t think it can be resolved here by people on both sides throwing out their unqualified opinions mixed in with bias at each other.
I just want to say the article and subsequent comments by the author fail to be objective and thoroughly researched. Especially with such a controversial topic a person should be very careful if they are going to write on it. Also the authors bias is shown is subsequent comments.
If someone is really curious about the treatment of women in Islam they should thoroughly research it using the most knowledgable Islamic sources and then weigh it objectively.
Personally I strongly agree with women not being hit, I do not think Islam in anyway prescribes wife beating, but I do agree that Islamic culture does have a problem with violence towards women (no it that culture alone). I also admit that Islam while discouraging striking a wife (through Hadith) has left the possibility open in the quran even if only via an incorrect interpretation of an ambiguous verse.
This however in no way compares to many things in the bible, or treatment of women in other religions such as Hinduism.
But even assuming this religion discourages violence towards women through the Hadith ” the best among you do not strike you wife” but permits it after two warnings in a limited manner this is hardly the worst treatment of women laid down by existing religions (although I do recognize culture may be worse in Islamic countries leading to de facto worse treatment of women but that should be addressed for what it is).
Also the superiority mentioned in surah 4 is physical superiority, earning capacity superiority, and societal superiority that existed at the time, and still does exist in many places. Also the earning capacity superiority will always exist where women may lose working time due to raising and having children. This verse gives men the responsibility to support them, while else where in the quran it is made clear women are also free to earn their own money.
Women were created spiritually superior in Islam. This is because they lack the arrogance that accompanies physical strength. They are the more merciful of the two sexes. That is why angels only ever appear in male form in Islam – they have no arrogance etc so have no need for the physically weaker body that facilitates many of the beautiful character qualities of women.
For anyone wanting to get a good understanding of the topic you can YouTube a talk called men and women by sheikh Hamza Yusuf for a start.
And just to reiterate I am not saying that Islam has not made it clearly forbidden to strike a woman (although any half serious Muslim takes a Hadith almost on par with a quranic verse and since no verse contradicts the Hadith directly ordering someone to hit their wife Islam actually discourages the practice) this is not the worst thing to ever be taught in a religion. In Jewish law a woman is stone to death for adultery. Ironically a practice that occurs in Muslim countries. This just shows perfectly that it is largely an issue of culture since these same uneducated, poor, destroyed (being a saintly us marine, you should probably research the role the west has played in creating the middle east we now see) societies are even practicing the barbaric practices of Judaism! It isn’t happening because of a vague Quran verse, it is happening because of living conditions. There were Muslim socieities in the past far advanced of Europe at the time where women were treated better than their counter parts in Europe. Blaming the current treatment entirely on religion doesn’t make sense. In fact I would bet if there was a way to determine it I would say that wife beating is more likely among the least practising and least sincere Muslims. While the more sincere wouldn’t even consider it as it goes against the Hadith mentioned above. Not to mention that Islam sees anger as a form of disbelief and even in battles a Muslim should be free of ego. It isn’t in line with the spirit of Islam that a person hit another out of anger if at all.
Ed,
First of all, I am glad you stopped by and chimed in with an alternative view. So don’t take the following comments I’m about to make for any sort of disrespect as I understand your points, give you full credit for your beliefs, and still respectfully disagree.
You spent much time in this and the following comment pointing out that I seem “biased”. And I believe that you think my bias is against Islam. So let me clear up that point before moving on. I hold absolutely zero bias against the Islamic religion. Or Christianity, Hindi, or any other. Because I believe in none. I think that anyone who believes in a supernatural being is equally wrong. But I also don’t care if you choose to do it – so have at it! Just don’t try to force me to do it.
By the way, I get the feeling that you are Muslim, so if we are admitting bias I think it’s fair for you to clear that matter up as well. Your rigorous defense here does not leave you appearing as unbiased as myself – who can easily point out flaws equally in all religions without caring about any in particular.
Having said that, you suggest that I have not thoroughly researched this issue, but you also, “…admit that Islam while discouraging striking a wife (through Hadith) has left the possibility open in the quran even if only via an incorrect interpretation of an ambiguous verse.”
Clearly the point of my entire discussion was to point out that – for right or wrong – many, many people have “incorrectly” (according to you) interpreted this verse, and have been doing so for century after century.
Since I’m pointing out flaws in your argument, you also stated, “…the superiority mentioned in surah 4 is physical superiority, earning capacity superiority, and societal superiority that existed at the time, and still does exist in many places…”
Well, I’d be willing to bet that I am personally bigger, stronger, faster, and have much higher earning capacity and societal “rank” than you do. So why would God not charge me with taking care of you? Seriously, this is a valid question!
There is ZERO doubt that the range of physical traits between ALL men is far greater than the average physical capability of a man and a woman. Some men are extremely weak and small. How about midgets, or crippled people? Men injured in war, or ravaged by disease? These men all have far less physical ability or earning ability than even a weak woman.
We could go back and forth all day arguing this point I’m sure. You with some sort of spiritual argument backed up by something written in an ancient text, and me relying on the simple modern principle that all people are created equal.
At the end of the day, I personally believe that I am no more valuable than a woman, and that genitalia do not define the worth of a human or set one above another. It is only our actions that separate us.
John P.
Not only the islamic, but also the jewish and the christian book has clear display misogyny, sexism towards women. So i think its pointless to put only one under spotlight. Its all ancient cultures’ sexist views and obviously people changed them.
You are not worth it. This statement of yours says it all. “Where guys like me fought and bled for that freedom you enjoy” . You are nothing but a bigot.
Oh, I am so proud of you John (sarcastically, just in case you get confused). You are such a pacifict! Yet, as a woman, why don’t I feel very flattered that you are on my side? The reason is because in trying to “defend” my rights, you are bashing my faith, and my beliefs. STOP it! Islam has nothing to do with individual practices. Even if a whole country (like Saudi Arabia or Iran) practices them. I admit, many so called “Islamic” countries have yet to give equal rights to women, but trust me, that is not because Islam wants it that way. The Islam I know put me, woman, on a pedestal. I am revered and cherished. I don’t care if YOU believe that or not. If you go a little back to the past, you will find that women were very oppressed in the west. A woman wouldn’t dare to show a bit of her “petticoat” or lacy underwear without her being tagged as loose or fallen woman. But look how far women have gone now. I feel very lucky that I live in a country like America that would allow me to practice my religion the way it should be, and hope one day, women in the East will eventually recieve the treatment that Islam has required them to receive. On the other hand, I don’t believe that I want Muslim women to become as “liberated” as they are now in some western countries. After all, we all need some limitations otherwise, we will allow the laws of the wild to prevail and we will become no different than the animals that roam the earth.
PS, I hope to God that you are not just seeking popularity by picking such hot and controversial issues?! Who am I kidding, of course you are.
Well, I certainly don’t mind the sarcasm, or even you outright attacking me, but I totally didn’t get the joke about me being a pacifist?
You do know that I’m a former US Marine right? And that I’d kill another human at the drop of a hat? But perhaps you are making a joke because I’m saying that women don’t deserve to be beaten? Oh well, who cares…
You realize you used over 300 words to babble about how I’m “attacking your religion” and how “you are on a pedestal”, yet in all those words you never once addressed the key point of this blog post. So, I’ll outline it for you again very slowly and clearly so you don’t miss anything:
Now, don’t tell me how nice your husband is to you. I don’t care. The topic of this blog post deals with the fact that a single organized religion actually instructs its male followers that:
It’s right there in black and white. The facts are not in dispute. The only thing that is up for debate here is how it should be interpreted. So, if you are one of the lucky women who isn’t getting beaten, then YIPPEE for you!!! But there are women on THIS VERY DISCUSSION THREAD who are victims of spousal abuse that is directly related to the fact that they are Muslim. Go back a little farther and read their stories.
Oh, I’m sorry. Clearly, you don’t give a damn about them. They are in a third world country, and you are lucky enough to be in “America”. (Where guys like me fought and bled for that freedom you enjoy.)
John P.
PS – This post isn’t a popularity contest. It’s about sticking up for people who can’t stick up for themselves. You should look into doing the same some time. Why don’t you go volunteer at an abused women’s shelter and then come tell me what you think.
Nancy,
I find it peculiar that you take issue with the specific language surrounding how exactly men can beat their women, but don’t take any exception to this part:
The issue here is whether or not men truly have any sort of authority over women. They do not. I don’t care what your book tells you. I am a man. I am no better than you are. God did not make me any better than you. If anything, I am certain the opposite is true! YOU are better than ME.
Let’s be sure to also point out that I doubt you read the original manuscript of the Koran, in the original ancient language. So you, like me, are relying on someone’s translation and transliteration into another language. Therefore we cannot rely solely on the specific words, but must instead interpret the spirit of the ancient wording.
Furthermore, your logic is simply faulty. The rationale for your argument is that, “…sometimes we need a slap on the hand to realise we are being silly….” Really? I am able to tell people when they are being silly without touching them almost every day! Just as I am doing for you now! The only reason I would need to slap you would be if I was not able to convince you to change your mind with rational argument. Then the threat of physical injury will FORCE you to.
You see, we are dealing with the concept of persuasion, vs. force. No human has the right to force another human to think the way they do. Furthermore, you must think more broadly and consider the fact that individuals are not always able to convince one another to see things their way. For example, what if you are actually smarter and more educated than your husband? What if he is arguing something with you that goes against, say, the laws of physics, but you simply can not convince him because he is ignorant. He has the right to hit you to force his uneducated opinion on you? Yes, your arrogance that you think you know more than him gives him the right (by your translation) to strike you.
And by your own argument, do you suppose that Men are never silly? I can guarantee you that I am sometimes wrong, or silly. Does that mean that my wife, or my best friend, should physically intimidate or injure me to let me know? NO! And do you think your man is more perfect than me? Because as far as I know, all mortal men are equally fallible.
So, I suggest that you should really think about the point I am making here.
In summary, there is no place for physical punishment in any marriage, or any relationship. We can only have peace and happiness if we have a society ruled by law and rational argument. If you find yourself with people whom you cannot ever agree with, then you should have the right to seek out those with whom you do agree so that you can live in peace. Physical confrontation should be defensive, and always reserved for tyrants and those who wish to impose their will upon others.
John P. (Who would NEVER hit you.)
and dawn i am so sorry about your situation, i am muslim and i know this man is going against the laws of islam by what hes doing to you, it saddens me as people like him give us a bad name,
good luck
Hi, i’m not sure where you got your verse translated from but it’s incorrect, the correct translation of verses 4:34 is:
..But those (wives) from whom you fear arrogance-(first) advice them; (then if they persist) forsake them in bed; and finally strike them…
you also lef out the comment at bottom of Quran’s page to this verse:
AS A LAST RESORT. I IS UNLAWFUL TO TO STRIKE THE FACE OR CAUSE BODILY INJURY.
i feel this topic has been blown totally out of proportion to be honest, sometimes we need a slap on the hand to realise we are being silly, we all know us women can get abit out of hand with gossip, drama etc…
If you read surah 4:34 together with the following surah 4:35, you’ll realise it’s actually ridiculous that people have taken “daraba” in surah 4:34 to mean “beat”. Surah 4:35 calls for an arbiter to be appointed if the twain doesn’t seem to be meeting each other in a marriage. Simply just think about it, if my husband whacked me into obedience, would there be a need for an arbiter? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5b2bPoppxY&feature=response_watch
I can explain why Muslim men have happily taken “daraba” to mean “beat”. It’s all about power. Whenever one group sees the opportunity to oppress another to its benefit, then the ugly side of human nature shows itself. There is absolutely nothing in the Quran about women covering themselves head to toe. What is said is for women AND men to dress modestly.
…anyone relying on google search results and internet to hold his own in an argument is pathetic. oh please Asfand Yar Qazi, wontcha look up on wikipedia more information about the big bang? you just sound so allah damn intelligent when you talk about your internet search results!
it’s funny to see how religion is interpreted one way, and as soon as people see such interpretation as bad, it is reinterpreted. you think women and men act differently? that is only true to a certain extent and there are many other factors other than genetics. i suggest you try and look up your information from some place other than the internet.
I have no idea where you think I was educated, but you must think I’m an idiot. That’s OK because the feeling is mutual. I cannot believe you actually said:
The fact that you think that a religion which makes women wholly dependent on men is OK merely because it is gracious enough to allow them to be dependent tells me that you and I are never going to agree.
The women I know would be highly insulted by your comments, and indeed I know several women whom I guarantee earn more money than you ever will in your lifetime. So you would be doing them a disservice if all they got was a measly little allowance from you.
John
Interesting. Do a search on Google for ‘make female genetic differences’, and read some of the links. The very foundation of our behaviour – our genes – are so radically different. The way the two behave, what they go through in life, the way they experience life. Any attempt to show equality between genders is rendered totally irrelevant in the light of science. Oh, but you said, “in every way that matters”. I suppose science doesn’t matter.
I’m not saying women should be treated as second class, I’m saying that men and women should be considered totally differently and different rules and judgements drawn up about them. Islam gives women the upper hand above men in plenty of matters, like expecting financial support from their father, brother or husband.
The Big Bang was an event where all the energy and matter in this Universe was compressed into a single point in the form of energy. A huge explosion occured, causing the energy to be flung outward, some of it being converted into matter. This is how our universe was formed.
The Quran says, “Do not those who not believe not see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?” (21:30, Translation by A. Y. Ali)
Due to the Big Bang, the Universe is therefore expanding.
“And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it.” (Quran, 51:47, Translation by A. Y. Ali)
There are many many verses that allude to scientific facts not discovered by humans until hundreds of years after the Quran’s revelation. Your theory that it was the work of a human being is therefore shattered. It is the only holy book that can prove itself scientifically to be from God, or Allah.
i hate when ppl use ploral ! i mean u ant say all musilms are monster, nor all christians are..
in each religion, race, nationalty we have good ppl and bad !
and “ruby on rails guy” i gather u live in saudi arabia, they are strict about gettin islam right that they get soo wrong !
like there is a verse in quran that says something like “u cant force anyone to a religion” and they are doing the exact opposite
anyway, i find women in islam are really cherished, and the way we dress is what make me belive that, cuz the woman body is very tempting to men, so protecting the women, islam ordered us to cover our body..
im not very religious my self, i dont wear all black and stuff, but i cant see u talkin about islam like this when u dont kno what are u talkin about
Dear Nassrine: where on earth do these Christian women (you speak of live?) Not in America, lady. Any man who beats a woman for not bringing him a cup of water would find himself on the street. Maybe you watch too much television. One course in the worlds religious studies does not make you a religion-know-it-all. Sure we have women abuse in America. But that doesn’t mean it is acceptable practice. I don’t know any woman who would allow her husband to beat her with a stick and think that would be okay. Think!!
Beating of Womens are Illegal in Islam…The right which are given by Islam to Women nothing given by any body. Beating of women is an individual act in any society , it is not specifically to muslims . If you go around the world you will you will see it .In AMERICA and WEST below are some fact which is shame full behaviour against women.could you have any justification for the below acts:
1- It is common in Europe to live without marriage with Women and having children….Is it fair with women??? Once Men’s lust is full then they choose another women ….Niether Society and Govt have any help for them.
2-In west & America , Rape of women is very common . According to statistics in every one second one women rapped in USA….Is it fair with womens?? It is all done by Mens !! open minded men!!!
3-In every Night ,Millions of Womens provide sexual entertainment in Bars and Night clubs …It is just for Men”s Lust and entertainment……Just for the sake to earn some dollars to live your life…..Is it humanity???
YOU MISINTERPRETING ISLAMIC VALUES AND TEACHING …if anybody want to see real pictures pls visit :www.irf.net
Thanks .
I do wish the videos from this site would work for me…but either way, i always find it interesting to see how many of our morals are broken when someone with holds their own beleifs and they beleive it to be all fine and dandy. No two people will ever think 100% alike, different religions and this and that will always clash. And yes Dawn’s story is sad. But this is the common America and things close to those occurances are not out of the ordinary…and yes its a terrible realization, but it is the truth. People are too wrapped in themselves to do anything about anyone but themselves now a days, maybe thats the way it should be, maybe it isnt. I find if i take care of myself, i am the only person in the world i can rely on completely. People change and wars start and end, people die and tragedies arise. Things do happen must i say, some to the better of us. But with that i must be off. Goodbye and best wishes Dawn.
Jessica
Sweetie I feel so bad for you but you need to realize that putting your husband under the title MUSLIM is wrong because men in general from every race, creed, and religion can do what your husband has done to you. Go get help but dont think that by giving a bad image about Islam and Muslim will help your case because it doesnt. If you want support from people you can start by not labelling people. You shouldnt have gone into a relationship with him in the first place. Besides he isnt a real muslim because if he was he should know that when a wife wants divorce he must give it to her right away because if he doesnt he will be hurting her and it is unlawful to keep a woman as your wife if she doesnt want you.
I am muslim too and I feel really sorry for you. What he is doing is very wrong. If he was my husband I would have divorced him long ago. You should have your lawyer go against him in court and get letters of recommendation from people saying that you are a good mther that way you will be able to keep your child, who will NEVER be good in the hands of a man like that. GOOD LUCK I HOPE EVERYTHING WORKS OUT FOR YOU.
It is very funny how people manage to make Islam seem like a voilent religion that is demeaning and degrading to women while at the same time avoiding to mention other religions. I took a World Religons class and when we studied women in the religions Islam, Chrisitianity and Judasim we found that Islam treated its women in the best manner. While studying Chrisitianity and the position of women in that religion, we learned that a Christian man is allowed to beat his wife for even the smallest of mistakes like not bringing him a cup of water. Also, christian women have absolutely no rights. She must give up her rights, free will, her money and property and her own free soul to her husband. In Islam women are considered valuable and are supposed to be loved and cherished. The Quran clearly states that the heavens are under the feet of the mothers. This shows the high level of respect Islam gives to womenm. Any muslim man who hits his wife is acting based on culture or his own idiotic ideas but it has nothing to do with Islam. So before you talk about someone else’s religion talk about your own, and if you dont have one focus on all religions, not only one. It makes me laugh how one of the commentor’s said that American men hate the fact that people hit their wives, while they have a very high rate of women abuse. Furthermore, before bringing up a specific religion talk about the media which demeans and degrades women every single day. When speaking about Islam please watch what you say and make sure you get your information straight, or how about something even better dont talk about Islam because Islam wans nothing with you and mind your own business.
Hmmm. That explains why there was no reply to my comment.
John
John,
Bushra was not well versed in his answering. He is well versed in cut and paste with out proper citing.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/beating_no.htm
Dawn,
I too am sorry to hear about the horrible experience you are going through. We have a close friend who went through an experience similar to yours and it was hell trying to extricate her from the situation. The good news is that she is now free of the lunatic and happily going on with her life.
I have seen first hand how hard it is to get the Police and courts to take action. You almost need an attorney and that costs real money – something not many women in your situation can afford.
If you could share a few of the details that Adi (ROR Guy) just asked we’ll see what we can do to find you some assistance. You can also use my contact form above if you would rather reach me privately.
John
I am so sorry to hear that Dawn. Thats so sad story and I wish we can help you.
Where are you living? Are living in the USA, if yes, you should be fine, you can go to court and get your rights. If you are living outside the USA, say the country name and I will try to help. My cousin is responsible for women rights in an Arabic country. I live in LA, CA.
Where is your husband from?
Or we can give you advice from me or from the man and other blog readers.
God Bless you!
Hello,
Your comments were helpful; I am living in a violent relationship with a muslum man. Now there is a baby involved. He has lied to me, degraded me, hit me. I am scared for my child. I left him last September to protect her. He has never been around her and she is 18 months old now. He has threatened to kill me. I have notified the police and got a restraining order for my daughter and I. He retailiated and said I didnt obey him and that I am his forever. She and I were going to disappear; I had everything packed and I was served papers trying to get visitation of my daughter. He told me that way I will have to see him on a schedule and cant ignore him. So I cant leave now. He has people watch me and threaten me. It is so hard to get help because everyone wants to do everything legally. I am afraid something will happen to me and then he will get her. I live in fear everyday of my life. There is so much to say about what I have went through for six years. He had me scared to death to ever leave him, I lost my job, had no friends… He accused me everyday that I was unworthy, trash, … then he would say I love you. I just wish someone would help before it is to late. It is so hard to escape him. I feel I will never have a normal life for my daughter and I.
You will one day, don’t give up hope. What country do you live in?
You are welcome John. What you see in these videos is nothing compared to what happen in reality.. Like Taliban used to use GYMs to execute women who is not behaving well!?!?
Something if does not make you cry, will make you laugh!
Thank
Wow! Those are two of the most powerful videos I’ve ever seen. Thanks for sharing them! And thank you for your kind words.
John
John: God bless you! I do appreciate your last reply when you tried to give phone numbers to help women.
Yes, if you were a women and you were living with a person who is beating you, YOU MUST do what John said.
I lived in Islamic society almost 22 years (even though I am Christian, I do find it common that a husband beats his wife in my society especially in villages. In my country, the Ministry of statistics have done many surveys, one of the surveys declared that 67% of my country women find it totally OKAY if the husband beats his wife. Just one moment, my country is one of the most civilized islamic countries. In my country, women get killed every day since they may talk or just gave a little attention to a guy, they get killed!!! We call it honor crimes.
Please see this movie, he is another moron talking about Women!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrH6Fu15tkA
Those people MUST change, their mentality MUST change…. Freedom for women, freedom for web surfers,
You can see another video (not so related):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4JQk6qRBM0
God bless you!
Kathy,
I am of the personal belief that women are, in every way that matters, equal to men. I would not follow any religious system that sets man above woman and frankly I am surprised that women are willing to subject themselves to second class status because of any ancient text written by someone who literally didn’t even know the Earth was round or what oxygen is.
Despite what any text suggests I do not believe that a man has a right to lay a hand on a woman (or another man) in any harmful manner. The lone exception comes in the form of law enforcement, and that is merely in a reactive capacity.
If you are in a relationship where your signifigant other brings you any physical bodily harm – or even just terrorizes you, please leave. If you have to flee your own country, take your children and do it. If you are in the US please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 800-799-SAFE.
I know it is extremely difficult to escape an abusive relationship. The only advice that I can provide is that if you are totally committed to improving your life – and you must be 100% committed – there are people who will help you to actually be happy beyond what you can currently imagine.
John
(in the name of allah)allah is and grate and fair but mens are not fair to women women gets slaped smaked around alot it not fair and men who beat there wifes are dogs discusting to and some men are sick in the heads no afence men mens get sensative if a women is smarter then him he hit her for that men get afrade if women get richer than him but i say ther some men are kind an good to women
Bushra,
First of all, thank you very much for that insightful and revealing interpretation. I can tell that you are well versed and I very much appreciate the clarification you’ve provided.
As I understand it from your interpretation the preferred method of discipline for a woman may not be, at least initially, to physically punish her; but instead to seek more peaceful alternatives to persuade her to act appropriately.
For me however, this fact doesn’t really change the initial curiosity I expressed when posting the article for the following reasons:
I should have been more specific about the underlying concepts I find captivating here:
In my opinion none of these opinions offer room for debate. There are only two possible future outcomes:
Take care,
John
Wife beating anytime and for any reason is never allowed in Islam. There is however a questionable condition where Allah Almighty seems to allow the husband to beat his wife, and that is after he gives her two warnings to stop showing ill-conduct and disloyalty.
Before we start, I’d like to first say that because Arabic is a complex language, and because Allah Almighty purposely and carefully chose certain words to be placed in certain Noble Verses, I strongly believe that Allah Almighty allowed for the interpretation of NOT beating wives to be valid. In other words, a Muslim man would not be going against Allah Almighty’s Divine Will if he doesn’t beat his wife, and instead, deserts her by leaving the house and living for instance with his parents for a period of time until the disobedient wife comes back to her senses, which would be as equivalent as the first interpretation, since the end result is the same, which is to discipline the bad wife and to get her back on the Right Path of what makes GOD Almighty satisfied with her.
Let us look at Noble Verses 4:34-36 “(34). Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
(35). If ye fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation: For Allah hath full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things.
(36). Serve Allah, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess: For Allah loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious;”
The Arabic word used in Noble Verse 4:34 above is “idribuhunna”, which is derived from “daraba” which means “beat”. The thing with all of the Arabic words that are derived from the word “daraba” is that they don’t necessarily mean “hit”. The word “idribuhunna” for instance, could very well mean to “leave” them. It is exactly like telling someone to “beat it” or “drop it” in English.
Allah Almighty used the word “daraba” in Noble Verse 14:24 “Seest thou not how Allah sets (daraba) forth a parable? — A goodly Word Like a goodly tree, Whose root is firmly fixed, And its branches (reach) To the heavens”. “daraba” here meant “give an example”. If I say in Arabic “daraba laka mathal”, it means “give you an example”.
Allah Almighty also used the word “darabtum”, which is derived from the word “daraba” in Noble Verse 4:94, which mean to “go abroad” in the sake of Allah Almighty:
“O ye who believe! When ye go abroad (darabtum) In the cause of Allah, Investigate carefully, And say not to anyone Who offers you a salutation: ‘Thou art none of a Believer!’ Coveting the perishable good Of this life: with Allah Are profits and spoils abundant. Even thus were ye yourselves Before, till Allah conferred On you His favours: therefore Carefully investigate. For Allah is well aware Of all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:94)”
So “daraba” literally means “beat”, or “go abroad”, or “give” but not in the sense to give something by hand, but rather to give or provide an example.
Important Note: Notice how Allah Almighty in Noble Chapter (Surah) 4 He used “daraba (4:34” and “darabtum (4:94)”, which are both derived from the same root. He used both words in the same Chapter, which tells me that “daraba” in Noble Verse 4:34 means to desert or leave, since that’s what its derived word meant in Noble Verse 4:94. The next section below will further prove my point.
I am sure there are more Noble Verses that used words derived from “daraba” in the Noble Quran, but these are the only ones I know of so far. In the case of Noble Verse 4:34 where Allah Almighty seems to allow men to hit their wives after the two warnings for ill-conduct and disloyalty, it could very well be that Allah Almighty meant to command the Muslims to “leave” the home all together and desert their wives for a long time in a hope that the wives would then come back to their senses and repent.